In fac a lot is missing, here is just some of it & it needs focused answers.
1) COVID Shut Downs - Gun shops were shut down during the COVID lockdowns. That has never actually been explained. If the media or the opposition can get some answers that'd be great. Lots of people are waiting.
In the case of any small family owned & operated business in a small country town that legally sold a few boxes of bullets per year as a service, their whole business had to close doors. They could not continue to trade even if they stopped selling ammunition. They lost income.
Why gunshops, small traders & even repairers had to close has never been explained.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
2) Armour Peircing Bullets - In pursuing further restrictions on lawful, licenced firearms owners Premier McGowan & Minister Papalia complained about "armour peircing bullets"
Such bullets have never been made available to the public EVER. If there are such rounds in the state they are only available from 3 possible sources & no more. Just the three, 2 are in lawful possession, one is not. The Minister has not explained how many armour peircing rounds he thinks are out there or which source is breaking the law & providing them to criminals. Those sources?
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
3) Ongoing Mental Health Checks - There is no research that even suggests mental health screening can prevent crimes. In fact even anti gun activists have cited that such testing is unreliable & is possibly dangerous as it cannot (quite rightly) predict future serious criminal behaviour. SOme clinical Psycologists have also pointed out they would need 10-20 clinical hours with a patient to establish a baseline understandign of a person before they would be able to make a professional diagnosis of a mental illness. Working on mid point of 15 hours & there being around 90,000 licenced firearms owners in WA thats over 1.3 million clinical hours ANNUALLY that will be required to detect serious mental illness. With those mental health professionals working an average 38 hour week, an additional 35,526 qualified mental health professionals will be required to join the workforce.
Forget the 35,526, where will the minister find an additional 526 staff qualified to make a full diagnosis?
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
In the case of any small family owned & operated business in a small country town that legally sold a few boxes of bullets per year as a service, their whole business had to close doors. They could not continue to trade even if they stopped selling ammunition. They lost income.
Why gunshops, small traders & even repairers had to close has never been explained.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
2) Armour Peircing Bullets - In pursuing further restrictions on lawful, licenced firearms owners Premier McGowan & Minister Papalia complained about "armour peircing bullets"
Such bullets have never been made available to the public EVER. If there are such rounds in the state they are only available from 3 possible sources & no more. Just the three, 2 are in lawful possession, one is not. The Minister has not explained how many armour peircing rounds he thinks are out there or which source is breaking the law & providing them to criminals. Those sources?
- WA Police
- Australian Defence Forces
- Illegal gun/ammunition smugglers.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
3) Ongoing Mental Health Checks - There is no research that even suggests mental health screening can prevent crimes. In fact even anti gun activists have cited that such testing is unreliable & is possibly dangerous as it cannot (quite rightly) predict future serious criminal behaviour. SOme clinical Psycologists have also pointed out they would need 10-20 clinical hours with a patient to establish a baseline understandign of a person before they would be able to make a professional diagnosis of a mental illness. Working on mid point of 15 hours & there being around 90,000 licenced firearms owners in WA thats over 1.3 million clinical hours ANNUALLY that will be required to detect serious mental illness. With those mental health professionals working an average 38 hour week, an additional 35,526 qualified mental health professionals will be required to join the workforce.
Forget the 35,526, where will the minister find an additional 526 staff qualified to make a full diagnosis?
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
4) Ongoing Health Checks - The minister has since pushed the fade but & at last mention it was ongoing "health checks" which suggests GPs will perhaps be involved in identifying who needs to go onto a qualified clinical Psychologist/Psychiatrist.
The original reason for the Ongoing Mental Health Tests? The minister made a clear pronounced claim, well clear as a minister might make. The minister cited that of the 20 deaths by firearms in WA, 10 were "suggested" to have mental health issues. Yes, "suggested" is the words the minister used. 10 deaths out of 90,000 licenced firearms owners in WA was pushing for an additional 1.3 million mental health Professional's hours. We're since learning that of those 10 very tragic deaths half of them were serving Police Officers who took their own lives with their service firearms. I'm loathe to fact check this & frankly not sure where to look but if that's true then that does not affect nor should it be connected to the 90,000 licenced firearms owners who are not suicidal Police Officers.
This is not legislative reform. This is not fit for purpose. This is either rank incompetence at the legislative level or its some other weird agenda built on the blood of dead WAPolice.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
The original reason for the Ongoing Mental Health Tests? The minister made a clear pronounced claim, well clear as a minister might make. The minister cited that of the 20 deaths by firearms in WA, 10 were "suggested" to have mental health issues. Yes, "suggested" is the words the minister used. 10 deaths out of 90,000 licenced firearms owners in WA was pushing for an additional 1.3 million mental health Professional's hours. We're since learning that of those 10 very tragic deaths half of them were serving Police Officers who took their own lives with their service firearms. I'm loathe to fact check this & frankly not sure where to look but if that's true then that does not affect nor should it be connected to the 90,000 licenced firearms owners who are not suicidal Police Officers.
This is not legislative reform. This is not fit for purpose. This is either rank incompetence at the legislative level or its some other weird agenda built on the blood of dead WAPolice.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
5) Very Powerful Firearms (VPF) - This refers to the list of firearms now suddenly banned in WA. This one that has perplexed professional shooters, sporting/recreational shooters & the competition shooters. WA is the only jurisdiction that uses the VPF description and what's made even worse, there has been no criteria laid down at all. All attempts to find the actual technical specifications for a VPF are met with a stonewall. It would be better if not only the specs were made available but who was responsible for putting the list together.
First it was high calibre. Once it was pointed out that a "calibre" only refers to a projectiles diameter it was switched to power. Once it was pointed out that power needs to be defined, was it muzzle velocity or energy on impact because both can vary massively depending on the amount of powder used, the length of the barrel, the twist rate of the rifling, weather conditions like wind, the type of projectile, its ballistic coefficient. You can have a big calibre that is not all that powerful...but we don't know what the "power level" is that's the scary cut off.
Then most recently it was changed to being rounds that can be fired at police from a much greater distance, with much greater accuracy with much greater deadly effect.
Who are these people likely to shoot upon police from great but unspecified distances???
Where is the intel reports that this is now a much elevated risk factor for police all of a sudden???
Most are used for feral control or competition use. Others are purely collectibles. One that was on the list but later removed was the "55 Baby". It is a World War 2 firearm that is sought after by collectors because it wasn't very successful & as a result they're very rare. You cannot, nor could you ever purchase the ammuniton for it. If any did survive WW2 it'd be incredibly rare & wouldn't use gunpowder, it would use the highly corrosive cordite. Anyone who's spent $12,000+ buying a 55 Baby (there's one possibly 2 in WA, definitely one for sure) you sure wouldn't devalue it by firing it.
Its clear it was placed on the list without knowledge or research. It was just BIG to whoever the unanmed person or persons were who made the list. Probably from searching the list of licenced WA Firearms Owners.
That's not a good example of legislative reform
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
6) Very Powerful Firearms (VPF) Pt 2 - Also on the banned list was the .50 BMG. It is a huge round. It is a large diameter & is very long range. Its also a favourite from Hollywood. I'm not sure if their expert research comes from Hollywood but I think anyone could be forgiven for thinking so.
They were used by civilians in WA in competitions & I believe (might be wrong) on only ONE club run rifle range in WA that is over 100kms east of Carnavon. This is elite level in both skill & cost. These rifles regularly start at $15,000.00
The ammunition is can cost anywhere from a cheap $15 a shot to $30 & rising fast. These are people with a lot of money & time invested in competing...in just travel & accomadation alone. I'm told they all have over the top secure storage with most having monitored alarms & videos. These are not crime figures.
They're now banned. They have never been used in ANY armed crime in WA ever. In fact we've been trying to find out but to date we haven't found one single crime committed with any of the VPFs in WA & possibly only one over in the eastern states. And that one was not a 50 BMG, it was one of the smaller rifles & even then I'm told it was unlicenced. So again, we have no idea why these are suddenly an elevated threat to the WA Public. No intel or statistics have been presented.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
7) Very Powerful Firearms (VPF) Pt 3 - In the demonising of the .50BMG again, armour peircing rounds were mentioned. That the .50 BMG is capable of firing these rounds. That is 100% correct. However the only place these will exist in Australia are in the Australian Defence Forces. Are they failing their security & ending up on the black market? We need to know what this is all based upon, what is the recent elevated threat?
Do WA Police have .50 BMG armour peircing rounds?
Until recently WA Police did not have a .50 BMG. I thought their largest was either a .338 Lapua or a 300WinMag & only then held by marksmen in the Tactical Response Group (I have no problem with that).
WA Police did recently purchase a .50 BMG & ammunition & its only ever been fired at a Press Conference attended by the then Premier Mark McGowan, Police Minsiter Paul Papalia & the then WA Police Commissioner (now WA Governor) Chris Dawson. All WA media in attendence it was fired at the Pinjar Rifle Range that is not rated for the .50 BMG. I was told (oppositon & media should check) that the club people running that range did not know a .50 BMG would be fired. It barely squeezes into the 6km safety envelope back ground that I'm told is required behind whatever target is fired at. Having said that, they were firing north and about the 6km mark out is the Pinjar Power Station & add on to that, the RAAF were advised to not fly whilst they were shooting. Yes, the RAAF were grounded whilst these politicians held this press conference showing the "50 cal" firing.
That's no less than $15,000 worth of rifle PLUS several thousands of dollars of rifle scope, special scope rings, bipod & an unknown amount of ammunition.
Apparently WAPolice still have the firearm that really can only be fired in a regional/rural setting.
We're not sure who or what they expect to be shooting at, whether they have armour peircing rounds or whether all officers with access to it are under going regular ongoing mental health tests seeing the high level of WA Police Officers committing suicide. There was in the news the reported higher reporting of mental issues by police officers. The minsiter claimed that the higher levels was a result of reporting being less shameful & was just more people coming forward. He didn't say its no higher than normal or that the amount of people under stress & suffering mental issues was normal, but that was the inference.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
8) Limiting Guns Per Licenced Person - This is apparently to lessen the amount of crime. This has not come in yet but its been pointed to by the minister.
There is no research to suggest that restricting gun numbers per licenced owner will reduce crime let alone specifically which crimes.
As mentioned months ago, there is no automatic connection between the number of guns & the amount of gun crime. It might seem easy to accept, more guns, more crime but many countries have guns outlawed & they still have gun crime.
Mexico in fact only has 2 gun shops in the entire country (actually I think its only one now).
It has a very regulated gun industry & highly regulated access for the general public & they have less guns per capita than Australia or Western Australia. How do they rate for gun crime then?
Gun Ownership
Australia - 14.5 Firearms per 100,000 people ( #45 in the world)
Mexico - 12.9 Firearms per 100,000 people ( # 53 in the world)
Gun Deaths
Australia - 0.10 deaths per 100,000 people ( #156 in the world)
Mexico - 15.55 deaths per 100,000 people ( # 10 in the world)
When I mentioned this to a person who wants all guns banned they accepted the statistic but said "You can't compare Mexico with here, they have many other factors like poverty & organised crime which are huge players in the death rates"
I pointed out, that is EXACTLY my point. There are other factors driving the gun crime rate here & in Mexico, its not automatically the amount of guns per capita. That is an entirely flawed argument by the WA Minister of Police.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
9) Public & Stakeholder Consultation - At present there is very little. The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (WA) is being excluded from input. Also excluded is the WA Firearms Traders Association.
Also excluded is WA Grain Growers. Also excluded is the WA Firearms Community Alliance (WAFCA) which the SSAA(WA), the WAFTA & WAGG among many others are members of.
This makes no sense at all.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
Should point out in the past groups have been able to forward reform initiatives & they have been accepted & implemented. However many have not and since the McGowan Government won control of both houses of Parliament the doors are not opening. Those groups that have been invited to meet with the minister are invited & attend one at a time with the usual result of being a formal information session of what is to happen, not about seeking views & input from stakeholders.
This is not going to bode well for wise legislation or sensible fit for purpose reforms that deliver a decent outcome
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
We should point out that the minister makes mention of the now banned VPF listed rifles & said in other countries they're used to shoot large animals like bears or rhinos, that we don't have those animals in WA. He should be asked which of those firearms are used to shoot those large animals...some are collector firearms & shoot nothing at all. Others are competition rifles & the ones remaining are used for pest control in WA. He needs to be fully open, honest & transperant and point that out. Instead he linked a suggestion of a threat to police. Who exactly is thought to be likely shooting police in WA with these firearms? These lawful owners or criminals who have illegal possession of these same types of firearms?
It really doesn't make sense but it makes for a great political optic in the news.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media
9) See whats missing from reforms & what wise advocates have asked for thats still missing. You still cannot post firearms & parts throughout WA & courier services are extremely limited. One Dealer had couriered a firearm over 1000kims because Aust Post won't touch them in WA...only WA. The courier sent parcel had to be returned to Perth then resent. so it travelled 3000+kms before the owner could pick it up. Posted, it'd wait in storage until picked up, fraction of the price.
Your .22 rifle is worn or you just want a newer better one...you have to sell your old one THEN apply for a new one with the full application process, wait time fr approval & processing plus fees. No simple cheap, like for like trade in process over the counter exchange. These are just some of things the WA Firearms Community Alliance is pushing for but other lesser equipped advocates are not.
First it was high calibre. Once it was pointed out that a "calibre" only refers to a projectiles diameter it was switched to power. Once it was pointed out that power needs to be defined, was it muzzle velocity or energy on impact because both can vary massively depending on the amount of powder used, the length of the barrel, the twist rate of the rifling, weather conditions like wind, the type of projectile, its ballistic coefficient. You can have a big calibre that is not all that powerful...but we don't know what the "power level" is that's the scary cut off.
Then most recently it was changed to being rounds that can be fired at police from a much greater distance, with much greater accuracy with much greater deadly effect.
Who are these people likely to shoot upon police from great but unspecified distances???
Where is the intel reports that this is now a much elevated risk factor for police all of a sudden???
Most are used for feral control or competition use. Others are purely collectibles. One that was on the list but later removed was the "55 Baby". It is a World War 2 firearm that is sought after by collectors because it wasn't very successful & as a result they're very rare. You cannot, nor could you ever purchase the ammuniton for it. If any did survive WW2 it'd be incredibly rare & wouldn't use gunpowder, it would use the highly corrosive cordite. Anyone who's spent $12,000+ buying a 55 Baby (there's one possibly 2 in WA, definitely one for sure) you sure wouldn't devalue it by firing it.
Its clear it was placed on the list without knowledge or research. It was just BIG to whoever the unanmed person or persons were who made the list. Probably from searching the list of licenced WA Firearms Owners.
That's not a good example of legislative reform
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
6) Very Powerful Firearms (VPF) Pt 2 - Also on the banned list was the .50 BMG. It is a huge round. It is a large diameter & is very long range. Its also a favourite from Hollywood. I'm not sure if their expert research comes from Hollywood but I think anyone could be forgiven for thinking so.
They were used by civilians in WA in competitions & I believe (might be wrong) on only ONE club run rifle range in WA that is over 100kms east of Carnavon. This is elite level in both skill & cost. These rifles regularly start at $15,000.00
The ammunition is can cost anywhere from a cheap $15 a shot to $30 & rising fast. These are people with a lot of money & time invested in competing...in just travel & accomadation alone. I'm told they all have over the top secure storage with most having monitored alarms & videos. These are not crime figures.
They're now banned. They have never been used in ANY armed crime in WA ever. In fact we've been trying to find out but to date we haven't found one single crime committed with any of the VPFs in WA & possibly only one over in the eastern states. And that one was not a 50 BMG, it was one of the smaller rifles & even then I'm told it was unlicenced. So again, we have no idea why these are suddenly an elevated threat to the WA Public. No intel or statistics have been presented.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
7) Very Powerful Firearms (VPF) Pt 3 - In the demonising of the .50BMG again, armour peircing rounds were mentioned. That the .50 BMG is capable of firing these rounds. That is 100% correct. However the only place these will exist in Australia are in the Australian Defence Forces. Are they failing their security & ending up on the black market? We need to know what this is all based upon, what is the recent elevated threat?
Do WA Police have .50 BMG armour peircing rounds?
Until recently WA Police did not have a .50 BMG. I thought their largest was either a .338 Lapua or a 300WinMag & only then held by marksmen in the Tactical Response Group (I have no problem with that).
WA Police did recently purchase a .50 BMG & ammunition & its only ever been fired at a Press Conference attended by the then Premier Mark McGowan, Police Minsiter Paul Papalia & the then WA Police Commissioner (now WA Governor) Chris Dawson. All WA media in attendence it was fired at the Pinjar Rifle Range that is not rated for the .50 BMG. I was told (oppositon & media should check) that the club people running that range did not know a .50 BMG would be fired. It barely squeezes into the 6km safety envelope back ground that I'm told is required behind whatever target is fired at. Having said that, they were firing north and about the 6km mark out is the Pinjar Power Station & add on to that, the RAAF were advised to not fly whilst they were shooting. Yes, the RAAF were grounded whilst these politicians held this press conference showing the "50 cal" firing.
That's no less than $15,000 worth of rifle PLUS several thousands of dollars of rifle scope, special scope rings, bipod & an unknown amount of ammunition.
Apparently WAPolice still have the firearm that really can only be fired in a regional/rural setting.
We're not sure who or what they expect to be shooting at, whether they have armour peircing rounds or whether all officers with access to it are under going regular ongoing mental health tests seeing the high level of WA Police Officers committing suicide. There was in the news the reported higher reporting of mental issues by police officers. The minsiter claimed that the higher levels was a result of reporting being less shameful & was just more people coming forward. He didn't say its no higher than normal or that the amount of people under stress & suffering mental issues was normal, but that was the inference.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
8) Limiting Guns Per Licenced Person - This is apparently to lessen the amount of crime. This has not come in yet but its been pointed to by the minister.
There is no research to suggest that restricting gun numbers per licenced owner will reduce crime let alone specifically which crimes.
As mentioned months ago, there is no automatic connection between the number of guns & the amount of gun crime. It might seem easy to accept, more guns, more crime but many countries have guns outlawed & they still have gun crime.
Mexico in fact only has 2 gun shops in the entire country (actually I think its only one now).
It has a very regulated gun industry & highly regulated access for the general public & they have less guns per capita than Australia or Western Australia. How do they rate for gun crime then?
Gun Ownership
Australia - 14.5 Firearms per 100,000 people ( #45 in the world)
Mexico - 12.9 Firearms per 100,000 people ( # 53 in the world)
Gun Deaths
Australia - 0.10 deaths per 100,000 people ( #156 in the world)
Mexico - 15.55 deaths per 100,000 people ( # 10 in the world)
When I mentioned this to a person who wants all guns banned they accepted the statistic but said "You can't compare Mexico with here, they have many other factors like poverty & organised crime which are huge players in the death rates"
I pointed out, that is EXACTLY my point. There are other factors driving the gun crime rate here & in Mexico, its not automatically the amount of guns per capita. That is an entirely flawed argument by the WA Minister of Police.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
9) Public & Stakeholder Consultation - At present there is very little. The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (WA) is being excluded from input. Also excluded is the WA Firearms Traders Association.
Also excluded is WA Grain Growers. Also excluded is the WA Firearms Community Alliance (WAFCA) which the SSAA(WA), the WAFTA & WAGG among many others are members of.
This makes no sense at all.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
Should point out in the past groups have been able to forward reform initiatives & they have been accepted & implemented. However many have not and since the McGowan Government won control of both houses of Parliament the doors are not opening. Those groups that have been invited to meet with the minister are invited & attend one at a time with the usual result of being a formal information session of what is to happen, not about seeking views & input from stakeholders.
This is not going to bode well for wise legislation or sensible fit for purpose reforms that deliver a decent outcome
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media.
We should point out that the minister makes mention of the now banned VPF listed rifles & said in other countries they're used to shoot large animals like bears or rhinos, that we don't have those animals in WA. He should be asked which of those firearms are used to shoot those large animals...some are collector firearms & shoot nothing at all. Others are competition rifles & the ones remaining are used for pest control in WA. He needs to be fully open, honest & transperant and point that out. Instead he linked a suggestion of a threat to police. Who exactly is thought to be likely shooting police in WA with these firearms? These lawful owners or criminals who have illegal possession of these same types of firearms?
It really doesn't make sense but it makes for a great political optic in the news.
This should have been focused on by the opposition & the media
9) See whats missing from reforms & what wise advocates have asked for thats still missing. You still cannot post firearms & parts throughout WA & courier services are extremely limited. One Dealer had couriered a firearm over 1000kims because Aust Post won't touch them in WA...only WA. The courier sent parcel had to be returned to Perth then resent. so it travelled 3000+kms before the owner could pick it up. Posted, it'd wait in storage until picked up, fraction of the price.
Your .22 rifle is worn or you just want a newer better one...you have to sell your old one THEN apply for a new one with the full application process, wait time fr approval & processing plus fees. No simple cheap, like for like trade in process over the counter exchange. These are just some of things the WA Firearms Community Alliance is pushing for but other lesser equipped advocates are not.
